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Joined: 03 May 2008
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Topic: Is anyone interested in 44.1 or better downloa Posted: 03 May 2008 at 6:23pm
Hi all, we are a new acoustic music label, Blue Coast Records, committed to high quality sound and releasing on SACD. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to manufacture the product. We are researching electronic methods of delivery and would like input from high fidelity listeners as to whether they would buy an audiophile quality download in addition or instead of the disc.
Thanks for your interest in your potential customers!
People are interested in a better format, but they're afraid of buying one format, then another one, then the remastered one, then the high-res format.
The final frontier, the holy grail, is your "master tape". Whatever format you use for your digital master, way before it got messed up in the compression to mere CD-quality.
My understanding is that format, and also the archival format of choice, is Direct Stream Digital. Since nobody provides software decoders for that (yet), I guess you'd have to offer the songs in mere high-res format, with a guarantee for update to your actual master format. Or maybe as a label you can kick Sony/Sonic Studio/Sonic Stage in the ass to freely release the DSF/DSD disc format details, so we can work with DSD and SACD files and transcode them to whatever format we want.
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Posted: 27 Dec 2008 at 4:16pm
Hi there, you've hit the nail on the head. It happens that before started the recording we did a listening test and found that analog was the best medium and chose to record the Blue Coast Collection on 2", with a backup to DSD. Gus Skinas, (one of the early pioneers of DSD/Sonoma) is a friend and personally ran the Sonoma system. We mixed to 1/2" tape and DSD (for the SACD surround). I'm happy to say that our music never touched PCM recording until it had to go to the CD layer.
We have had many request for 1/4" tape and vinyl, which we will be producing next year. I worked at Windham Hill in the late 80's as a producer... during the switch to cd. I'm quite familiar with the debauchery going on with companies using cds as their masters to vinyl. It's really unfortunate for the consumer to not have a knowledge of what they're buying.
and I totally agree about compression messing up the dynamics... a real shame... My day job is as a producer, engineer and studio owner. We record everything to analog and DSD... we're trying to hold down the fort, but it's tough when a 70 year old jazz legend wants to slip a kick drum over 1/2 a second... yikes!
best in the new year... cookie www.bluecoastrecords.com i think you'll like the music... at least the quality... and our high rez download is only $2.. good to know you'd pay more. ;) we've only got one up there right now
I'm happy to say that our music never touched PCM recording until it had to go to the CD layer.
So how do you feel about using formats that add significantly more distortion (in the form of noise) to the audio?
In an ideal world, an archive format should be a precise copy of the original and not require huge amounts of noise-shaping and filtering. Perhaps one day...
High sample rate PCM is not some sort of abomination, in fact it can be entirely faithful to an analogue original (as proven by countless listening tests at the BAS and other groups). The real problem is the dynamic range compression etc. added to recordings, and unfortunately that's not something that can be easily overcome as more and more producers release albums that have a 1dB dynamic range and run at an average of -0.1dBFS throughout.
Interesting read; one minor correction though: "MP3 isn't enough, even FLAC lossless is only CD quality." FLAC can compress 24-bit 192kHz files, in fact I have quite a few. There are a number of websites offering FLAC downloads that are greater than 44kHz 16-bit.
I should add however, that some players have problems with higher sample rate files.
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Posted: 27 Dec 2008 at 11:34pm
High sample rate (192, or DSD) is certainly a better alternative to lower PCM sample rates, though, it's not really faithful to the original analogue recording. I won't go into all the details, but, my background has been to evaluate and consult with digital equipment manufacturers, speaker companies, etc, to find fault inorder to make improvements.....
My experience is in the pro world where I deal with the original masters every day and try to satisfy budgets, recording trends and stay true to myself. To keep costs down, much of the gear is compromised with filters that do their best to copy the sound, but unfortunately, are years away. I've been involved with digital recording since it came to the mac in 1985. My first dyaxis digital recorder at 16 bit 44.1 sounds better than protools HD today.
I had the unfortunate experience to have to record a solo piano to protools HD last month, and heard compression added to the sound on just a through put. Yesterday, we compared 4 different input levels recording to DSD.. none of them close to zero and we heard very different translations of the high end distorting. That's with no effects.
I realize I'm hyper sensitive to all this because I care.. and I work with it every day. Sometimes, I'm not sure I should expose all the problems of recording to such wonderful fans of music in the audiophile world. In the Jan 2009 issue of Stereophile, there is an article about a workshop I gave to our Bay Area Audiophile Society. I was happy to disspell the fantasies.. ;)
By the way, We've done listening tests with FLAC and have discovered that there is an audible difference comparing an uncompressed .wav file transmitted through the internet.. to a FLAC file with no compression. The FLAC files have more bass end added. The more compressed the file, the more muddiness in the bass. It's small, but it's there...
Ultimately, if the music is good, I will listen regardless of the format. These days, even good music is hard to find!
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